Sales for Nerds: Making BD Feel Less Icky, with Reuben Swartz

For many consultants and solo business professionals, sales can feel uncomfortable. But even one-person businesses need sales to survive, let alone grow.

Reuben Swartz is solving this problem with his monthly podcast, “Sales for Nerds” and his product, Mimiran—the fun, simple anti-CRM for solo consultants. In this episode, Reuben shares his experience publishing 100 episodes since launching his show in 2016. In this conversation, you'll hear:

• Why most CRMs suck for solo consultants
• Why he sat on his podcast idea for six months
• The importance of a minimum audio quality threshold
• What the future has in store for "Sales for Nerds"

This episode was produced by Red Cedar Marketing. Need help launching and running a business podcast that actually produces results? Visit www.redcedarmarketing.com.

Transcript

John Tyreman: 0:05

Welcome business podcasters to another episode of podcasting in professional services. If this is your first time here, this podcast features stories of experts and professional service providers who have created a business impact through the power of podcasting. I'm your host, John Tyerman. If you're watching this on YouTube, hit that like button, hit that subscribe button, if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, leave a rating and a review. And to the folks that regularly tune in, I just want to thank you so much for listening. Um, I've actually had to throttle back on publishing episodes because I'm onboarding a few. which is a good problem to have, but, um, it's hard to juggle with all the podcast content, um, that I want to put out there. All the interviews that I've done, I've got a lot of content in the hopper. That's, uh, that I really think that you're going to enjoy, including today's episode, which features Ruben Swartz, who is the founder of Memorand, The fun anti CRM for solo consultants. Ruben also hosts the podcast sales for nerds. And, you know, funny enough, we recorded this conversation, this, uh, that you're about to hear over coffee one morning. And then later that evening, I was actually a guest on his show. Where we had a good chat about podcasting over a cocktail. And so that was a fun experience, um, doing both of those recordings in one day. Um, but before we get to my conversation with Ruben, imagine you're able to build trust with your buyers. Imagine you're able to rapidly accelerate your network growth and then create endless marketing content all from one activity. Well, that's the power of podcasting folks. And if you are ready to explore the idea of launching a podcast for your business, I'm offering a free podcast consultation. Simply go to redcedarmarketing. com, uh, or send me a message on LinkedIn to get in touch with me. Touch. All right. And now for my conversation with Ruben Swartz. Our guest today helps solo consultants put the relationship back in CRM. Ruben Swartz is the founder of Memoran, a fund anti CRM for solo consultants who hate selling, but love serving clients. Also the host of the sales for nerds podcast, where he helps you connect instead of network teach instead of market and help instead of sell. Ruben, welcome to the show. Great to be here, John. Thanks for having me. And I'm really looking forward to talking with you on sales for nerds a little bit later. I know we've got two podcast interviews scheduled today. We're going to do coffee. Now we're going to do wine later. So that's going to be, that's going to be a ton of fun. Um, And you can hear me on Ruben's podcast. I think we're going to talk about the impact of podcasting on your marketing, effective ways to promote a podcast, workflows, and much more. So catch that episode on sales for nerds. Um, and yet, you know what, Ruben, it's a, it's a funny story of how this conversation came about. I think my cohost on Breaking Biz Dev, Mark Wainwright, he was a guest on your podcast, right? Uh, he will be. Gotcha. He will be a guest. And so, um, I had this, uh, I interviewed Brett trainer a few episodes ago, and he invited me to present to his group, escapee collective, you were in the audience and it was just kind of this, uh, small world type of story. Well,

Reuben Swartz: 3:29

then you and I had a conversation and you told me that you looked for guests for your podcasts who were a little bit ahead of where you were as a podcaster. So I said, well, that's not me. I don't belong on your show. And yet

John Tyreman: 3:39

somehow here I am. Well, you're, you're coming up on a hundred episodes published on your sales for nerds pockets or have you, I think you've passed that mark now, right? I think by the time this gets out, we'll pass that. Very cool. Well, that's, that's one of the things that I look for is that, that there's that magic hundred episode mark. That's that's typically from my experience. That's where a lot of podcasts start to really take off is at that hundred episode mark. So congratulations on, on your, on reaching that number. Thanks. It's been a journey. So yeah, well, let's dig into that, Ruben. So, um, what I'd love to do is I'd like to set the table with just a brief overview of your business, Memorandum CRM. Uh, I guess, you know, that what that does is it helps our listeners kind of understand the role of your podcast to your business. So can you give a brief overview of who do you help and how do you help them?

Reuben Swartz: 4:28

Sure. So there's a lot of solo consultants, coaches, fractionals, folks like that, who are great at serving clients, but then they get all kind of twisted when it comes to business development. They don't like sales and marketing. It feels icky. They maybe have a spreadsheet that's overflowing, or they have some enterprise CRM that some other consultant told them they should use that they don't really like because it's too complicated. And they just feel kind of gross about the whole sales and marketing thing. They know they should be doing it, but it's not wonderful. And they usually just end up kind of hoping a referral comes in. And I know all about that because I've, I've been in that world and I've, I've played that role for years. And what I realized over time is it doesn't have to be that way. Typically a CRM is for a VP of sales to keep track of a sales team. And that's great if you're a VP of sales with a sales team, but it's, it's kind of like trying to take the space shuttle to the grocery store when you're a solo consultant and you're not a VP of sales, you don't have a sales team. You don't even like selling. Right. Right. But you need some way to make sure you're organized and you're following up and you're having conversations with the right people. And if you do that, then good things are going to happen. And it doesn't have to feel like a salesperson that can feel a little bit more like a doctor. And that's kind of my mission, right? I went through this journey as a, ironically enough, a sales and marketing consultant. So I helped giant enterprises with this stuff. And I like to think I did a good job with that because I got invited back and we got good word of mouth and so on, but I was really crappy at my own sales and marketing. And the more I tried to copy what my very successful clients were doing, the worst things got. And it took me a long time to unlearn what I had worked so hard to learn. And I realized that, that, you know, I was part of the sales and marketing industrial complex, which is really aimed at larger companies because they're the ones with the money, but that approach just is backwards for an independent consultant. And I never set out to build a CRM. I'd love to tell people that, Oh, I saw this. This opportunity in the market and I'm going to visionary and blah, blah, blah, blah. But that's not what happened at all. In fact, I had to be dragged kicking and screaming into creating a CRM. And, uh, people were asking me to do that. And I said, no, the world doesn't need another one. And I'd be the last person to build it. I hate CRMs. And they were like, that's why you should do this. And so here we are, right? with a way to, to create and nurture relationships through conversations that I think you can actually have fun with without being a salesperson. Even if you're introverted, et cetera, if you, if you kind of set yourself up for success, you're going to look forward to it. You're going to develop the good habits. You're going to want to keep doing it. And then good things are going to happen with your business and you're going to be able to help more people. And the CRM is sort of like the, the day job part of that mission. And the podcast is sort of the, uh, supporting, uh, the, the Roll part of that mission where I also get to bring in other experts such as yourself and just bring some more expertise and wisdom that, that my audience can take advantage of.

John Tyreman: 7:09

Just because the VP of sales is just one hat that these solo consultants have to wear. So, Ruben, I want to dig into your podcasting experience. And you mentioned the podcast was a way to bring in outside perspectives, to give, you know, more value to your audience, who are these solo consultants, they're wearing multiple hats. You started podcasting in 2016, which is like super early on like the podcast, the podcaster scale there. Why launch a podcast? What went into that decision? Um,

Reuben Swartz: 7:41

Well, it's funny because I was listening to your interview with Brett trainer and a lot of what he said sort of mirrored my story. And back then I didn't even know exactly who my audience was. Uh, I hadn't built a CRM. I hadn't done a lot of this yet. Uh, and in fact, what I noticed was. I would work mainly with big companies, but I had a lot of fun talking to small business owners. Sometimes I'd even do a small project in between the big projects, or I would get those messages like, Hey, Ruben, someone said that I should pick your brain. Can I buy you coffee? And as much as I like doing that kind of thing, it's not, necessarily a great use of my time. So I thought kind of like Brett, I'm like, Oh, I should write a book where I just answer these questions that I keep getting. And then I was like, gosh, a book sounds like a lot of work. Uh, you know, it would be really easy. And then I was actually on a business retreat with some, some friends who are also small business owners and we would go skiing during the day. And then in the evening we would go over each other's business plans and things like that. And that there might've been some, some alcohol involved and so on. And I remember we were talking about how, you know, if we were younger people, we would just film this and put it on YouTube. Right. A bunch of people having a good time talking about technology and business and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, you know, I'm not clever enough to do that. It's my business. It's my podcast. I can do what I want. Why don't I have a podcast where I bring a bottle of wine to someone's office, and then we have the conversation and it'll be a great time, right? It'll be a little different. And I was also in a place where I was feeling kind of ground down by my work. Like I just wasn't having fun. much as I would've liked. And so I was really looking for a way to do that. And so of course I thought this was a great idea. My buddies thought this was a great idea. So what did I do? I sat on it for six months. It did nothing because, because I wasn't ready. I didn't have everything perfect. I didn't know what equipment to use. And you know, all those little engineering perfectionism things that, that I am prone to. And so finally I hit the six month mark and I'm like, this is ridiculous. Like I'm just, I'm never going to do it if I don't invite someone to the podcast. And, uh, you know, I, I really wanted to have Jason Cohen, the founder of WP engine here in Austin, who they're the hosting company I use for my WordPress. And he's a serial entrepreneur. Who's who's got a very, I think, interesting way of thinking about things. That's very relatable to, Nerdy techie people. Um, and so I sent him an email about how I was doing this podcast where I bring a bottle of wine and blah, blah, blah, blah. And here's why I would love to have you on as the first guest. And you know, your history and this and that and blah, blah, blah, blah. I've been reading your blog for years, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And he's like, yeah. Five minutes later, I get an email back. You had me at wine. Here's a link to my calendar. There you go. You know, we go and we drink a bottle of wine together and we have a great conversation. The audio is terrible because we're sharing a mic and you know, it's, it's just not very well done, but we only stopped talking because we ran out of wine. Like we had such a good time. And what I've heard from people is even though the audio is pretty bad and it would really be better if the audio was better, like what. You learn from Jason during those. And it's the only episode that actually split into two episodes. Cause it was like two hours of talking. He dropped so much wisdom that it's worthwhile. And I was like, wow, that's, this is really fun. Like I, I feel invigorated again. Cause I had a great time and I know that anyone who listens to this is going to pick up a lot of wisdom. And that just helped me get the ball rolling. And over time I've sort of narrowed the audience specification a little bit and, uh, got a little bit more focused, which I think is really helpful, but sometimes you kind of have to feel that out as you go, but the basic premise is still the same. And someday I'll write a book. I did have a couple of people on who were like, Reuben, you really should write a book. In fact, you know, here, here's why small business owners should write books and blah, blah, blah, blah. Uh, and just like Brett, my, my book is, uh, is not, let's just say not on the shelves.

John Tyreman: 11:42

Well, I think, um, a couple, a couple of things that I want to unpack from that Reuben, number one, I think a book and books and podcasts go hand in hand and, um, whether you write the book first and then you go out and you, You know, you, you interview folks or you go on other podcasts to talk about your book, um, or, you know, take the root of you and Brett who are doing interviews now. And that can be parlayed into a book down the line. Um, you know, that that trajectory is definitely, um, appealing to me too. Um, there was one other thing that I wanted to dig into, and that was, um, you know, That content quality is more important than audio quality. And what I mean by that is like you, you mentioned the audio quality wasn't that wasn't the best on that first episode, but the content was fire. Right. And, um, I think that's a lot of like, that's one thing that trips up. A lot of podcasters is focusing on the quality of the audio rather than the quality of the content, if that makes sense. So I think that was a really important point that you made, if you were to go back in time, what would you tell yourself? Would you just say, just start that doesn't matter? Or would you, would you guide yourself into getting different equipment? How would you approach that differently?

Reuben Swartz: 12:59

Well, I think the one thing that I would have done differently that I did end up doing differently, and now I don't even do in person. I can't remember the last time I did an in person interview. Um, but having two separate microphones, I think is, is right. That's that, that was the mistake basically. If we had done that, everything would have been a lot better. And then you could also, it's so much easier to, if. You know, one person is sitting further away and they're quieter. You can fix that. easily versus everyone just gathering around a single bike. But I think what you said is really important. There's some minimum threshold and some people might say, Hey, you know, those early episodes did not meet that threshold. I'm tuning out and that that would be fine. But I think most people would say it's kind of crappy, but it's okay. And I think there are, There are podcasts where the sound is amazing, but nothing is being said. And like, okay. And maybe I'm just not the right person in the audience, right? Maybe it's not their fault. Uh, versus I almost think of a podcast as like, it's supposed to be a little pirate radio y, right? Like you're supposed to be listening in on a conversation. I don't necessarily need to feel like I'm in a BBC studio to listen to a podcast. I'm, I Almost rather feel like I'm listening in on a couple of friends eavesdropping on their conversation

John Tyreman: 14:14

because it's more human that way and it's more real that way and then when you have these, you know, highly produced shows where people are sitting, you know, it looks great, right? It looks fantastic. And I think that's all of those like studio produced shows, you know, they're, they're going for you, the YouTube audience, they're going for a performance or they're going for production value in terms of like the quality of the video and things like that. But to your point, you can still get a lot out of a conversation that Isn't highly produced. So,

Reuben Swartz: 14:47

um, well, I think in some, just to build on that, I think in some cases it's important not to have crappy audio or the dog barking or, you know, the internet cutting out kind of thing. But some of the really highly produced podcasts, they're so slick and edited that I'm not sure if I'm getting the full story. And it's not necessarily like they're out to deceive me necessarily, but it's like, it almost feels more like a commercial. Like when, you know, when you watch a commercial, this is not reality. It's it's edited to, to present a certain way. And you don't want to have to have every single um, and ah, and pause and miss spoken word in the podcast necessarily. But I think you can kind of tell when, Hey, this is somebody talking. And you can hear maybe some hesitancy in their voice because gosh, I hadn't thought about that question before or whatever it is, and I'm trying to formulate a response on the fly versus everything comes out perfectly polished and it almost like a bunch of sound bites. You're not being let in as much.

John Tyreman: 15:45

That's an interesting perspective. I can see there, there could be differing schools of thought on that, but to your point, if you really do want to have a more organic conversation, or if you want to be a fly on the wall of a more human organic conversation, then yeah, there should be. You know, some of those different pauses. And contemplation moments, like you say, like I like that now on the flip side, I suppose, as a listener, you could say, okay, well, just get give me to the value. I'm here to listen to, you know, to extract the value from from this guest or from the hosts. Um, So yeah, I suppose it's, you know, that really depends on who your audience is too. And your, your own style. I like to say there's no rules in podcasting, right? And so you, it's an art form. And so you're the artist and you want to create this, this conversation that you would want to be a fly on the wall on. Right. So, uh, I, I want to wade a little bit into You, you landed on a monthly cadence for your podcast. Why that frequency why not twice a month or weekly? How did you land on a monthly cadence?

Reuben Swartz: 16:54

First of all, I don't know if I would recommend it. I mean, you're the podcast expert, but what, what I understand is you should definitely be a lot more frequent than monthly. And in fact, I was trying to do it twice a month and I just could not keep up with it. It's just, it's just too hard. And in theory, I could outsource. Chunks of it and I did like I had people editing and whatnot and that helps a little bit but a lot of it is just like I want to actually talk to people before I have them on and and This is sort of like a side thing It is not my main thing and I just I found when I was trying to do it twice a month It got back to that. Oh my gosh. This is a grind. I'm not enjoying it But if I could do it monthly, then that's a cadence that I can sustain, even though it's probably not optimal for growing an audience. Uh, but I feel like I can do a better job sort of curating the guests and enjoying the interviews and. And my theory, which I have not actually proven yet, which you can dig into in a second probably is, well, and that will give me some time to like, take the episode and not just publish the whole thing, but chop it up into pieces and reuse it in the intelligent way that we're supposed to use podcasts that I'm really not. It's hard

John Tyreman: 18:02

to do that. It really is. But I think you, to your point, you, you mentioned the monthly is a cadence that you can sustain and you've been doing this podcast since 2016. So, you know, you're coming up on 10 years of, of podcasting. And so I would say that, you know, in the grand scheme of things. You know, you, you've got a cadence that you can sustain, that you have sustained, you know, of course, you know, there's going to be periods where you're on and off with the podcast, you know, things happen, you know, you get super busy life events, all that stuff. Um, but the point being is that this podcast has been kind of a long term part of your marketing strategy, not the entirety of your marketing strategy, but a, you know, a significant part of it. Um, and so I think that's, that's really great that you were able to kind of establish a cadence that you can. Now the, the, the videos like chopping it up into snippets and stuff, that's, you know, it's, it's kind of like next level. What, what's stopping you from doing more of that?

Reuben Swartz: 19:00

The real answer is nothing. Uh, the sort of the, the surface level answer is I have too many, uh, Things going on. And, um, once I have a routine for that, or I found somebody that I would trust to do that, I think it would, it wouldn't be that hard necessarily. Um, it's like a lot of the people tell me when they're like, Oh, Ruben, I really need a CRM. I love your serum, but I just don't have time to get organized. So I'll have more time. Right? Like everyone has aspects of that in their life. And for me, the podcast piece and the book piece, that's, that's a big chunk of it.

John Tyreman: 19:36

Yeah. Yeah. And that's totally, totally fair. Um, especially cause like you mentioned, like the podcast is just one part of it. And, um, you know, uh, at the end of the day, it's, it's not a, not a, the biggest priority, right? Right. And so, and that's, and that's totally fair. Um, so what, speaking of like the level of priority and how it connects to the business, how does your podcast connect to the business? What kind of an impact has it had on your business?

Reuben Swartz: 20:09

Well, and I think it was, I can't remember as Michael was saying that it's hard to measure sometimes because, yeah. It's almost like, uh, I don't know if billboard is the right term, right? But, but people who sell traditional advertising say, well, of course you can't measure it, but if you don't do it, then people don't have you in the back of their mind. And I think there's a lot of that to podcasting where, uh, you develop what I guess they call a parasocial relationship where people feel like they know you, even though you have no idea who they are, which is really, really wild. Right. And I think of it like, Oh, I went to a concert with my wife on Saturday and, uh, you know, Janet Jackson has no idea who I am, but I feel like I know her because I've heard her songs and been to her shows and she's in my head, right? And not to equate myself with somebody at that level, but it's weird. Like people listen to us and they have hours of us speaking in their head. And I think that really helps the right people say, Oh, Okay. I think I get this guy and his approach or this gal and her approach. This might be the right thing for me. Or conversely, this guy makes no sense to me whatsoever. Totally disagree with, with everything he has to say. There's no way I'd want to use his CRM. Right. And you kind of get to, to develop that relationship in a way that you can't. There just isn't the time physically to do it one on one. And so I think that that's helpful. And then what I try to do, and I should probably do a better job of is link, not just to the guests. Stuff because, of course, I want to link to the guests and promote them and promote their businesses, but also like, oh, if you like this episode about blah, blah, blah, blah, here's a resource on the memory insight that you might like. Or if you want to put this into practice, here's here's a video about how you would do this in memory. Start your free trial here. I should be doing a better job of that kind of thing.

John Tyreman: 22:08

Yeah, that those kinds of call to calls to actions are the connective tissue to, um, kind of the next stage of the customer journey for folks that are qualified by your standards. Um, and do fit your ideal client profile. Um, No, that's, that's, yeah, so there's, I think the, the key takeaway there is that, you know, a podcast can help you accelerate your network growth and it helps you have conversations that you wouldn't normally be able to have. And through that, you're able to access, not access, I suppose is the, is the wrong word, but reach, um, individuals who are in the, the, who are first degree connections of the folks that you interview. So you, you've got this like network amplification that's happening. Um. And that can lead to new business, but it's hard to attribute like, like you mentioned. So

Reuben Swartz: 23:03

and I think one of the big things that I do may be better than some, and that I'm always encouraging my tribe to do is, okay, so you've got the podcast, you've got the call to action, give people a really simple call to action around a free resource that kind of helps them deal with the topic of the episode. And then part of the whole idea with Mimrin is we want to not just get that email address, but we want to turn that into a conversation. So really important that if you see somebody who is, looks like an ideal fit for you coming in via that podcast call to action, don't be afraid to give them a call and just have a conversation. Don't try to sell them your services right away, but oh, you know, maybe if you're, I don't know, say you're a web designer and you have some episode about, uh, color schemes or whatever it is, right. And then here's the free resource about your color scheme. Oh, well, you know, how does your site. Performing today, have you changed your color scheme? And you're just having a conversation to people who both care about the same topic. And the person on the other end of it is probably going to be really excited to get some free insight from the person that they just listened to on a podcast. And then the right people can say, Hey, gosh, can you help me with this? What would that be like? But you never have to be there. Like, Hey, You want to buy some updated color schemes for your website? Cause that that's going to be icky and no one's going to like that.

John Tyreman: 24:29

Just checking in. Do you want to buy from me yet? Yeah, that's, that's, and I think that's, you know, to your, to your whole positioning about making, you know, putting the fun back in CRM and putting the, we're putting the relationship back in CRM. I think that's, what's really missing. It seems like the, uh, that's, what's missing from a lot of the CRM. Software today, right? The HubSpot, the Salesforce, um, you know, those, those big kind of monolith gigantic platforms that just have so many features and you get so overwhelmed using it, right. And it's really just as simple as, you know, making sure that you're, you know, connecting and having that conversation. Even if that conversation spans multiple months. Right. You know, you're, you're asking a question, you're saying, Hey, you know, I thought of you because, you know, I was building, building this one thing. And it made me think of a conversation we had earlier. And, you know, you can kind of weave it together and you can have this, this, you can build deeper relationships on that level. I love what you're doing, Reuben. It's, I think it's, um, it's, it's needed in the marketplace.

Reuben Swartz: 25:31

Well, thanks. I mean, that that's, I, I need it myself and I tried dozens of the other tools and I, I just felt like an idiot again and again and again, and I finally realized, well, maybe I'm an idiot, but separately, these tools are just the wrong tools for this situation. And those, those other tools, they are for managing a Salesforce where you have a bunch of leads. And it's the job of the sales leadership to have their team push those leads through a funnel, right? And, and they have to reduce all those. People who are the leads to numbers like that. That's the only way you can do it. They don't have personal relationships. A lot of times with all the sales team, let alone the people, the sales reps are talking to. Whereas in our world, we have relationships with all these people. They are not just numbers. They are people. And if we're going to create and nurture relationships as an introvert who avoided this for a long time, one of the thing I realized, and I'm like on my soapbox about is the building block of a relationship is a conversation. And you cannot automate that you can automate and organize and do things to facilitate conversations, but don't do what I did for years, which was try to use technology to get out of the conversations instead of into them. Oh, I like

John Tyreman: 26:42

that. I like that a lot because, yeah, at the end of the day, you need to, you need to have those conversations and it's really human. You can't automate that, um, as much as chat GPT would, you know, entice you to. Right.

Reuben Swartz: 26:55

Well, I got a message in my LinkedIn inbox yesterday, clearly some automated thing that referenced our prior conversation, you know, as if we had had some conversation where I had expressed interest in his services. And I'm like, dude, like if I wanted to do the thing you're suggesting, I have to trust you and you have made it impossible for me to trust you. Right. And like, I don't even think you're like really trying to lie. Like you probably paid someone to set up this. Automation sequence. And you may not even know what's in it. I don't know. Or maybe you set it up yourself, whatever it is. Right. I don't think you're really trying to like Nigerian prints me, but that's the impression I get from, from your automated sequence, because like, it'd be one thing to be like, Hey, this is an automated email that once a year, I just wanted to see if, if you need help with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But when you're like pretending things, right.

John Tyreman: 27:45

I it's the AI bros out there. And I, it's funny. I was on Twitter. Well, ex formerly known as Twitter and I was looking at my inbox and it was like three messages back to back to back and it was like, Hey John, if I could send DMS to 10, 000 people a week, would that interest you? And it was like copy paste from three different accounts right there in my inbox. Oh my God. Like, no, this is like how not to sell one on one. Um, well, Ruben, I want to get back to your, to your podcast. Um, What's next for sales for nerds. What's on the horizon. Where do you plan to take the show from here?

Reuben Swartz: 28:21

Well, like I said, there's a whole bunch of things that I should be doing with my content already. And I feel like I have this, this huge bank of wisdom from all these awesome people that, um, I should be. Repurposing and maybe turning into a book that I don't write, right? But I basically just take all the words out of my guest mouths and stick it in some long form content or something like that. And what I've been wanting to do, and again, I've just been been failing wildly, is, um, sort of be able to step back and get organized. So instead of I kind of do it ad hoc, like, Oh, John, you'll make an awesome guest. I'd love to have you on. And it's nice to have some serendipity there, but it would also be cool to kind of have some structure to it. Like here's a set of guests that kind of go together. They either compliment each other or they go in some kind of sequence. And so when you listen to it, it would tie together a little bit more instead of right now it's kind of like, uh, you know, Law and Order, every episode you can watch standalone, which is great if you're doing onesie twosie, but it would be cool to have it be a little bit more following from one to the other. And I, I, when I started, I kind of had this list of here are people that I want to have on. And then as I pivoted the audience a little bit or refined it, um, I, I got a little bit of it. off track with my intentionality about guests. And so what I really need is like, I need to go back to that original retreat that I was talking about that led to the launch of the podcast that they've got that retreat got, uh, wrecked cause of COVID and now post COVID everyone has too many kids and other commitments and whatnot, and we haven't been able to resurrect it and, and it literally like, that was my, my, I'm leaving for like four days and getting everything situated and for whatever reason I cannot do that. without going away. And so my kids are actually going to be seniors in high school this year. And so I'm kind of like, okay, this next year, I'm just going to focus on that part of, of life. And everything is probably going to be a little bit chaotic business wise. And, and I'm not planning to do all the stuff that I said, because there's no way that's happening. But in theory, when they go off to college, then I'm going to have a lot more time and energy to sit back and, and, you know, really have a plan to be intentional about this because I think, uh, the, the audience that I'm addressing needs a lot of help, not, not from me so much, but from all the awesome experts that I have on. And that audience is really growing. And I think there's a lot of crappy advice out there. Um, where it is the people who are like, Hey, I'll get you 10, 000 DMS or whatever. And I want to be not the, but an antidote to that to let people know, Hey, you don't have to go down that road. You can be you. We're just going to channel you in a way that's effective to help you get more clients.

John Tyreman: 31:25

Love that. Love that being more intentional with who you bring on being more intentional with how the episodes connect together. Um, and then I like your last point there of, you know, Of showing a contrast between, you know, what's, what's wrong about, um, you know, CRMs out there in the marketplace selling out there in the marketplace and how you bring a fresh new perspective to the table that can help solo consultants, because that's exactly who you're going after. Sure. Some of those, you know, you know, volume sales tactics may work in software sales or, you know, some other industries, but not for solo consultants. So that's, that's a different. Animal, right? Ruben. I thought this was a fantastic conversation. Is there anything that we didn't talk about, um, about your sales for nerds podcasts that you wanted to bring up?

Reuben Swartz: 32:19

I mean, I think there's so many things that we could talk about. I'm loving this conversation, but I want to respect the time of your time and your audience's time and say, maybe we'll, we'll. chat more on sales for nerds when I have you on later and we'll, we'll, you know, uh, we won't be as caffeinated, but we, we might be a little bit looser and freer because we'll have other beverages.

John Tyreman: 32:40

Exactly. So you can, for those that are listening or watching this on YouTube, you can check out that conversation, uh, the rest of this conversation on sales for nerds. All right, Ruben, we'll, I'll talk to you then. Thanks, John. Cheers. All right. Thank you so much for listening to my conversation with Ruben Swartz from Sales for Nerds. If you found this episode insightful, please leave a rating and a review. Subscribe to the YouTube channel, subscribe to the podcast, wherever you get your podcasts, and follow along on LinkedIn. Happy podcasting.